while your not gonna see it in/at top level chess f4 in practice for online purposes and those of us like myself who aren't top players I think it can be seen as a valid opening if nothing else because no one looks at it because everyone just assumes its bad. Now I like to play against f4 but I have lost several games to 1. f4 players as I wasn't able to punish it. Also, you could look at it as a taking people out of book immediately in most cases. idk just food for thought.
Ok what is blacks reply to nc3? Seems absolutely fine to me. Bulldog its playable just not fun.
OP: I don't know; I haven't seen a lot of hate for the Bird, really. In fact, I enjoy playing against it as black with From's gambit (1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6) and in general am not afraid of it as black. Although, I do sometimes enjoy playing it as white, too. It's not the worst opening in the world. I also read a book on it, and, while rare, it has been seen at master and GM-level play.
One major weakness for white though is the kingside. The old adage about avoiding moving the f-pawn does kind of apply. It's a flank opening that's less versatile and usually considered slightly weaker than c4, but I certainly don't hate it, nor have I ever known anyone to *hate* it..
One major weakness for white though is the kingside. The old adage about avoiding moving the f-pawn does kind of apply. It's a flank opening that's less versatile and usually considered slightly weaker than c4, but I certainly don't hate it, nor have I ever known anyone to *hate* it..
But honestly can someone tell me why black is better after 1nc3?
@Subomega the c pawn break is an important source of white play
@clousems but does that make black better? Usually you do that break in d4 d5, and korchnoi broke with e4 and knight on c3
@Subomega I'm no master (or engine guy), but my intuition tells me that in such a situation black isn't necessarily "better", the thing is that white doesn't have it's natural advantage. Like black didn't have to fight for equality, it's basically equal from the start.
In fact, a quick look at Stockfish shows that black is indeed very slightly better after 1.f4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6. It's essentially giving black equality from the start, though. Black is by no means significantly ahead.
The best move after 1.f4 d5 is pretty much indisputably Nf3. And even here it's already an effectively equal game. Nc3 is not unheard of, but still kind of irregular so early in a Bird opening. I personally enjoy b3 for a Bb2 fianchetto (White, unlike in typical games where they control the light squares, controls the dark squares d4 and e5 in the Bird opening) to further control those squares, and prefer my knight to go to d2 rather than c3.
Also, e4 is uncommon, typically you play e3 in the Bird as white. Again, to control the dark square (in this case d4). I'm not sure Korchnoi applies, either... black can get a comfortable game with just d5, Nf6, g6 and Bg7, if f4, Nc3, e3, Nf3, etc.
In fact, a quick look at Stockfish shows that black is indeed very slightly better after 1.f4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6. It's essentially giving black equality from the start, though. Black is by no means significantly ahead.
The best move after 1.f4 d5 is pretty much indisputably Nf3. And even here it's already an effectively equal game. Nc3 is not unheard of, but still kind of irregular so early in a Bird opening. I personally enjoy b3 for a Bb2 fianchetto (White, unlike in typical games where they control the light squares, controls the dark squares d4 and e5 in the Bird opening) to further control those squares, and prefer my knight to go to d2 rather than c3.
Also, e4 is uncommon, typically you play e3 in the Bird as white. Again, to control the dark square (in this case d4). I'm not sure Korchnoi applies, either... black can get a comfortable game with just d5, Nf6, g6 and Bg7, if f4, Nc3, e3, Nf3, etc.
My database shows 49% for Black after 1 f4 e5 (From gambit), and 46% for Black after 1 e4 e5 2 f4, so transposition to Kings Gambit is slightly better for White. As Black, I am happy with either of those chances. I love to play the Black side of either. To me, 49% winning chances is not 'unsound.'
Answering f4 with d5 is consistent with current thinking, which is, if you think the other side is playing something risky, play something solid against it. From gambit is more a 'romantic' approach of trying to immediately, directly punish the opponent's weak opening.
1 Nc3, which some of us call 'der linksspringer' (the knight on the left), scores 51% for White, only slightly less than 1 e4 (53%) or 1 d4 (55%). In the spirit of Magnus Carlsen, any of those opening moves starts you off in a good direction. No explanation for those negative numbers, but we expect some digits and fractions from the computer, so it gives us some.
Answering f4 with d5 is consistent with current thinking, which is, if you think the other side is playing something risky, play something solid against it. From gambit is more a 'romantic' approach of trying to immediately, directly punish the opponent's weak opening.
1 Nc3, which some of us call 'der linksspringer' (the knight on the left), scores 51% for White, only slightly less than 1 e4 (53%) or 1 d4 (55%). In the spirit of Magnus Carlsen, any of those opening moves starts you off in a good direction. No explanation for those negative numbers, but we expect some digits and fractions from the computer, so it gives us some.
It is good. It is played at top level.
I have never heard that anyone hates the Bird. However it is not considered a top tier opening and therefore is not played very often at Super GM Classical. I would guess it has a purpose of avoiding opening preperation.
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